Clarification of rule


#41

Knowing the status of the other team's base and of the other team's combat movements has a direct impact on decisions you would make on how you would build as well as fight in the opposing team (building and fighting are the activities you have described that one could do while multiclienting). As a builder, knowing such information about the other team would allow you to know when and where it is safe to build, and when and where it is strategically more advantageous to build. The same applies to combat strategies. Basically it is like an abstract form of wall hacking. A form of cheating, even if you don't verbally communicate ghosting activities to the other players

Sure any advantage you might get from such knowledge could apply to both teams. However, who is to say that you would use that information to benefit both teams equally? Additionally, even if you "balanced" the advantage, if both teams had an equal number of wallhackers, and/or an equal number of aimbotter, and or an equal number of other kinds of cheaters, that doesn't change the fact that cheating is going on.

It is :slight_smile:


#43

How many time did we see good player playing humans, and then when the team move the RC they switch to alien team and win the game BECAUSE THEY KNOW THE RC IS DOW!
I have a new rule to prevent that:
It's forbidden to join the other team when OM RC are going down/ are down.
This is another form of ghosting.


#44

There is a "!warn" feature that is nifty. I use it all the time to allow players to change attitude/gameplay before I initiate admin action. This function should be used more in my opinion. However, @bluefire we do have a warning system that the admins can use to there ability before advancing.


#45

thx, I agree with that

Btw, could we ( no admin player) be able to ban someone for 1 hour ? Because when there is a deconner/ TKer, he ruins the game of everyone, so we callvote to kick him, and 2 min later he is back.

Could we do this? first callvote kick==> 2 min
second callvote kick=>1 hour
third callvote kick => 1 day.

I know admin are doing what they can to ban those asshole, but sometime there isn't admin on the server and it becomes the asshole paradize XD.


#46

I thought about changing Dretch*Storm temp kick to 1h. I noticed a lot of decons.


#47

why not? btw, how could we add this rule? Can semeone add a poll in the admin section about those ideas?


#48

whoa what

How did a simple rules conversation develop into a complex discussion about battling oneself?

also /dev/humancontroller (@DevHC,) you might want to train drawing a circle with one hand and a square with the other before trying to play quad client trem with two hands and two feet...

Unless you havemore than 4 limbs or you use your mouth


#49

i have a more fully thought-out rule from where the above came from:

it's forbidden to join a team if u have (accidentally or purposely) acquired information (by seeing or hearing directly or deductively) about the other team. information includes, but is not limited to, eg. what weapon/class someone is using and where, which team is winning, etc. so if u have just entered the server, and looked at the scoreboard, or just happened to see an alien and a human, then u're not allowed to join at all.


#50

WRONG. despite perhaps that u can't see this, it is actually easy to arrange ur multi-client gameplay in a way that such impact does not happen.

a very concrete exemplary demonstration of this will be described S00N(TM)(R)(C).


#51

Good until here.

I call this bullshit


#52

The problem with that on the current voting system with the multiprotocol slacker's qvm (that we use on GrangerPub/GrangerClub), is that voting is so easily abusable, However, longer kick lengths could be practical on test7341's current voting system (even though there is still more work to be done on it).


#53

but it's a fact.


#54

imagine a regular game on atcs.

  • on the alien side, stick around the default alien base, and build as a granger.
  • on the human side, stick to pushing (in terms of player presence, not base moves) into the middle of the tunnel to camp there, and attack alien players there.

analysis of information usage will also be described S00N(TM) or when WRONG comments r raised. about the above.


#55

Yes, I agree, but they are not "Important information"
RC/ OM down are important infos


#56
  1. define important information.
  2. prove, that in a healthy ruleset, joining a team shall be disallowed if and only if some important information about the enemy team has been acquired.
  3. show that „reactor / overmind down” belongs to the important information category.
  4. show that „the alien / human team is winning” does not belong to the important information category.

#57

Important information: RC down / RC going to be move AND OM down / OM going to be move

When the OM / RC is down, all défensive building are shut down, so it's easier to kill ppl and the spawn=> it's easier to win.

They do not belong to the important category because
1) there is always a team wich is winning.
2)They are not strategical informations: If you join alien when they are winning, H can camp and win then.
3)They rely on other players and those players can play using weapons / evolution and defensive building in their base are not down, you have to destroy them if you want to win.

When RC / OM are down, defensive building are not defending the spawn and the player, then, it's impossible to buy weapon/ use evos when RC and OM are down, so it's very hard to defend the base=> it's easier for the other team to win.
That's why people try to keep RC move and OM move "secret", I mean they are not going to writte in the general chat: we are going to decon our RC at 12 min and 20 seconds. If you are playing H and your team is going to move, you know RC is going to be down soon, you know where are spawn, and you know this because you are playing in the H team. If you were alien, you could not know when RC is going to be decon. OK?
So, if you left H and join alien, your goal is to win aka destroy spawns and kill everybody. Spawn are usualy defended by H and ret, BUT you know RC is going down ( because you played H some min before)
So you know that if you rush when they dec RC, you have Highter chance to win than if you didn't know about the RC move.


#58

btw, if RC/OM going down/ down are not important information, why is it forbidden to writte it in the chat? Ha! you call that ghosting........But if you join the other team, you know some information you shouldn't be able to know.


#59

noted. formally, IMPORTANT_INFORMATION = { reactor, overmind } ⨯ { down, going down }.

WRONG. this proof attempt doesn't even make use of the just-introduced definition. at this point, all further answers should have no weight until u fix the definition and proof, so i should finish the reply here.

however, i'll do something different. since the proof concludes that „it's easier to win”, it appears that the definition used here is the following: important information is information with which it's easier to win1. i will analyze ur other answers with this definition in mind.

BUTT first, it's obvious that it's easier to win by joining the winning team (would it instead be easier to win by joining the losing team ?), showing that „the alien / human team is winning” is important information by the modified definition, so analysis is reduced to poking at why u're WRONG.

1 ≠ { reactor, overmind } ⨯ { down, going down }

WRONG. there is no logic connecting these statements to a conclusion. also:

  • the argument part of 2) is WRONG: as if aliens couldn't „camp and win then”.
  • in 3), u make the assumption that some base is down, which is not necessarily the case, not even if ur original definition of important information is used.

WRONG. there is no logic connecting these statements to anything related to healthy rulesets.

at most, u have shown that „reactor / overmind [going] down” is important information by the modified definition (which is obvious anyway). formally, { reactor, overmind } ⨯ { down, going down } ⊆ IMPORTANT_INFORMATION.

u really think u're smart ?


#63

teh PROBLEM ? what PROBLEM ?

also, pro tip: i play Tremulous a lot more than u do.


#64

I already explained it before, it's still possible to ghost RC/ OM move.