Der Bunker (


That's without counting on the fact our opinions don't matter if they differ.


Are you saying you're predicting problems in Der Bunker administration? I don't think there's a reason to believe that.


Actually yes I do. I predict that any active game server that uses QVMs that have some or all of the same fundamental problems, with the current state of affairs will experience major problems in their administration sooner or later. But if @enneract , Der Bunker's server owner, is going to disregard that point, then I guess Der Bunker will be putting my prediction to the test and we'll see by yet another example if I'm right or wrong on that issue. Good luck.

If by dealing with desala you mean taking actions that would prevent him from connecting the game server, it doesn't look like Der Bunker has done any better in that regard. I stopped by Der Bunker and played a match in the last couple of days and it appeared that desala was there. Also the desala topic on these forums still gets updated with new material.


Explain what exactly the fundamental problems are.

We let him play because he stopped deconning after we showed him he couldn't evade anymore.


WRONG - You already tried this and it didn't work. Oblivion also tried it on his server.

"decent sized" = 4 players according to gametracker data.


Yeah, call the fact that over 50% of your admins are quitting due to your bullshit as "intentional downsizing"

How would you know?

You add enough bandaids and the wound heals on it's own.

GrangerHub method - Amputate the limb where the wound is located, then proceed to replace the digit with a wooden pole dipped in cat turd.



Desala is behaving and is now a valued member of our community. At Der Bunker we appreciate and listen to our players and admins.


One more thing I should add:

I wouldn't call myself the server's owner. I am hosting and taking care the technical aspects of the server, but administrative decisions are made by a group of almost 10 high admins. I should have included "concentration of power" in the list of probable reasons your administration fell apart.


It is answering @Blizz question about GrangerHub having to do something to keep the "monopoly"


That is the approach that was done on GrangerPub, when he got out of hand, he would keep being banned on sight as he was evaded over and over and over and over until he "behaved" again.

That is one of the main subjects that these forums are about, and something that we have been discussing for awhile here on these forums. But to sum up some of the big ones:

  • It is way too easy for matches to be ruined by intentional griefers as well as by inexperienced players.

  • The whole experience is very unfriendly towards inexperienced players.

  • There is not much to lose from violating rules if you know how to evade and are willing to do it.

  • Way too many admins are required, and way too much attention from them is required.

If you are the one who has the legal responsibility for the game server, then you are the server's owner. That is how it works legally. A game server has to be owned by some entity, whether it be an individual, a corporation, a not-for-profit organization, or some other legally recognized entity. But if you encounter a lawsuit for whatever reason, you can try the following "argument" in court and see how far that gets you:


Wishful "retroactive" thinking? This never happened or at least no one noticed a difference.

Not that easy if there are admins playing. See the points below.

Does this affect server administration?

A skilled server operator can prevent evading.

Only if you let people evade using random VPNs and decon all the time.

What do I care how it works legally? I was talking about distribution of power and how it helps administrate the server.


I offered my opinion on where some major problems may come from, @enneract disregarded that and claims that he could do better with the same kind of technology and that he has a better way to manage an administration and operate a game server. So good luck with that approach, I'm not going to argue with @enneract any further about whether or not there are flaws in @enneract 's approach, no need to even discuss hypothetical in this regard, now @enneract is on stage so to speak and @enneract will have to produce results.

I will be very interested to see what happens in the long term with Der Bunker if it doesn't change its current approach (and I would be interested to see if it does change its approach at some time and to what, and what follows from that).


probably cuz the definition of „active” is a lie; BUTT most importantly, the procedures for reporting abuse r retarded (and there r other issues). @enneract: r the abuse-reporting procedures on Der Bunker better ?

u're both WRONG. band-aid solutions apparently work in these days — exactly as displayed by the attractive force of Der Bunker —, and long-term solutions r needed S00N(TM)(R)(C).

i hereby announce my entry into remind u that i am also a (valued ?) member of the Bunker community. i shall be appreciated and listened to: desala shall be grabbed by the pussy.

WRONG (u could be operating a server on behalf of a different owner, such as: u're payed to protect the server). also „if u're the server's owner, then u have legal responsibility for the game server” would be correct in the sense that „if someone gets abused in connection with the server, and legal authorities fail to apprehend the true abusers, then it's possible that the weight will be partially offloaded on u”, but is practically misleading. because most ppl, especially after seeing what's going on on GrangerHub, associate the singuar term „server owner” with some sort of DICKtator that fucks over anyone who fails to follow some absurd protocol by even the slightest bit.

also note that paying a puny 1–2 $/month (or, 4 if buying from congested country, or 20 if u suck @ cash management) is very small compared to the cost of real admin work, if the latter were to be measured. this means that it's faggy for „server owners” to follow a „here, i own ur ass; take it or leave it” mentality. what @enneract is probably saying, is that he opens appropriate, meritocratic access, to the forum and the game server, with this in mind.

technology is better. for example, @enneract has an anti-desala system.