Discussion on Reevaluating Friendly-Fire/Decons for GrangerPub

As many of you are aware, recently GrangePub has been having alot of issues with players ruining matches through griefing tactics such as (but not limited to): TK, Revenge TK, OM bleeding, base-nading, RC/OM removals, decons, Luci holocausts, etc. Its getting to the point where administration cannot always keep up with the amount of shit players do to disrupt matches. This month alone we had multiple bans due to players using FF/decons.

I believe at this point, its worth coming together as a community and reevaluating ideas such as Friendly Fire or how decons work. From what I understand, servers tend to enable FF because it acts as a deterrent against humans from going trigger-happy during close areas and base rushes, spamming projectiles at aliens with no recourse.

However, now I think its a good time to reevaluate if its possible to come up with better solutions.

What are your thoughts on this?

I’d be ok with revaluating and coming up with new solutions.

One I’d maybe have is:

Get rid of the Buildables Friendly fire…
Let me explain what I mean with that.

Take one humans who shoots aliens. His aim gets on a buildable and he does dmg to it. (The actual system)
What could be done, make FriendlyFire have two types. One for the Players and One for the Buildables.
We could simply turn on/off this Buildable friendly fire variable so only the Players can be affected by this.

In this case, the only real problem would be TK, Revenge TK.

For the decons, we could make taht ONLY the designated builder can remove it. (If no builders are designated, no OM/RC moving. Simple as that.)

Of course it’s only an idea. We can still make something even better than this. But right now I can’t really think of something better. Sorry.

3 Likes

50% of friendly fire damage is reflected back to the player.

Callteamvote basemove

Reduce damage to friendly buildings from grenades and lcannon

2 Likes

50%? So you can teamkill 2 people with 100 hp, i think it should be 120%, you die before killing somebody else, lucifer cannon excluded in here since you can kill someone in 1 shot instantly killing yourself by accident of course, but other guns should be that way.

I agree with the callteam vote move system., but it takes time and time is precious, we should see how it works though.

1 Like

Lucifer teamkill could get rid of all of your credits :slight_smile:

That is not viable, if the number 1 human aka most kills by accident teamkills a crazy naked running in circles while hes shooting a rant, and loses all his credits, it only a detriment to the team. Another solution must be seeked.

One thing we need to keep in mind is that there are several types of “TKers”.

One example is the player who is actually playing the game to win (more or less). People would usually fall under here because they spammed their pulserofl into a hallway too many times and killed a teammate during a goon ambush.

The other example would be the “Troll”. They go beyond the mechanics of the game and essentially “metagame” the match by using TK as a way to grief other players until they’re forced to stop.

The reason I’m making this distinction clear is because Woodbury brings up an excellent point:

Before making any TK balance suggestions, think about how it would affect the player AND the troll.[quote=“avarthar, post:5, topic:1934”]
Lucifer teamkill could get rid of all of your credits :slight_smile:
[/quote]

Trolls don’t give a shit about credits, damage reflection or even whether they win or not. Their purpose is to use TK to take down as many people with them before they die. This is part of a reason why TK is a difficult thing to address.

I know I was kinda just kidding :wink:

Nah, I wasn’t specifically harping on you. :stuck_out_tongue:

Just something to consider before this thread goes any deeper.

Yea :wink:

Anyway, as Woody said, some returned dmg could help a bit. Like they recieve 150% of the dmg they inflict to the ally. If they inflict more damages. (Like those tk griefers) it would go up. (Maybe exponentially with a minimum of like 5% per tk.)

You’re gonna handicap more normal people than griefers with this though. I’d rather turn TK off entirely.

4 Likes

I’d be ok with removing the TK entirely.

Everybody should take in consideration that disabling friendlyfire makes the gameplay completely different, and changing the gameplay result in the playerbase getting mad, so I disagree 487% on turning it off. From my experience, the result in reflecting the damage caused 1.2 times damage done to a friendly, yeld in less teamkilling and more careful gameplay, than just being a random @MaeJong shooting pulse rifles around :wink:

WRONG™

Enjoy people running in front of U on purpose and sitting on ur nades.

Note: I rarely bleed with prifle.

I disagree.

There is something inherently about TK in Tremulous I always had a problem with. In a game where its already difficult to co-ordinate with each other as humans, having players worry about sniping each other off when 2 tyrants, 3 dretches and a ADV Dragoon jumps in makes everyone paranoid. Unlike other games, the enemy team is all melee and you pretty much HAVE to be accurate even when aliens are very close to your own teammates or get fucked. I remember when everyone had to constantly type “Sorry” every base rush.

For scrims, this wasn’t an issue. In fact, I loved TK in scrims because it raised the skill ceiling required to play human effectively. However, scrims are enviroments where you know everyone on your team and you have quicksay binds or even a VOIP setup for the match. If someone dies, it was bad but atleast you know its from a guy in your own clan who fucked up.

GrangerPub is not “GrangerScrim”. Players are uncoordinated and already feel too comfortable sitting near structures as Humans. Having TK as a deterrent only makes this problem worse.

However, I understand TK exists to make it so that theres less pulserofl spam. So why not just make it so that TK is replaced by “Team Damage”. All damage from a teammate is reduced by 25% of it’s normal value, however you can only bring your Teammate down to 15HP. You can’t actually kill them. This makes it so that its easier for aliens to pick off humans who aren’t careful but without the consequences of TK.

Of course, this still makes it so trolls try to “Bleed” teammates during/before firefights, but its alot fucking easier to see who is shooting you than being dead before you can do anything about it.

1 Like

People ALWAYS run in front of you, ALL the time, no escape from that, and nades could be taken off from the reflect damange since dying by a nade don’t become a goal.

Btw, @hendrich You forgot one type of teamkiller, which isnt teamkiller in reality but bleeds on purpose to let aliens kill the guy in front, Example: 2 guys vs a goon, the guy guys use shotgun on goon, guy 1 is in front and guy 2 shots guy 1 on the head just for the lolz (Yeah it happens) then take the goon kill for himself.

Edit: Yeah, exactly, bleed teammates to 15% because you cant kill them, but aliens can. Same example.

The game is supposed to have team damage, because it reassembles reality better and because it promotes skill. Playing a game which doesn’t challenge you is ends being boring, so instead of being noob friendly, punish the guys being teamkillers.

  1. people don’t have eyes in their back so it’s your responsibility once they go in front of you
  2. people who try trolling you like this won’t let you take the leading/front position
  3. noobs don’t know about boost so you can outrun them
  4. doesn’t happen to me anyway because I am constantly pushing

Hendrich’s idea is not bad but it makes bleeders not lose money and unable to get tked back, votespec/kick becomes their only option.

btw full shotgun headshot = OHK.

is dis nigga for realz

are we playing the same quake 3 mod?

tremulous is plenty “skillful” without having to blow up your teammates because one dumbass stood too close to the grenade your threw at the barricade in ATCS hall

I advocate TK for Tremulous in competitive environments, such as GrangerClub. However TK in servers like GrangerPub where the average chucklefuck comes in is a problem because we need to maintain constant administration 24/7 to make sure TK doesn’t get out of control. Games like League of Legends, Overwatch or even CSGO make distinctions in their own games between “Ranked” and “Unranked”. I don’t see why the same can’t apply to Tremulous between pubs and scrims.

In order to improve the idea, unfortunately it’ll take some QVM programming wizadry (AKA someone working for free) to do it. Perhaps make it so that a TKer counts as “assisting” whenever an alien finishes off another human player and deduct credits based on that. Increase the credit % as assists continue. Though at this point I doubt its worth it.

IMO I don’t think players TKing back should be a solution to TK. That sounds like an issue of where the actual problem lies.

Often the bleeder gets teamkilled back until the team/vote passes, if it even passes.

I’d like to introduce a command (similar to X’s handicap) that makes a player unable to bleed/TK, and why not add an automatic check:

If damage done to team = 1/4 of damage done to the enemy, or if you do 250 friendly damages under 30 secs, you get handicapped for the game. (although that is abusable and anyone can make TK disabled for themselves… probably should be TK damage reflect or something to be honest). (outlaw would be good if it didn’t cause a massive shitfest on top of making the turrets busy)

So, your suggestion is, have 3 servers:

  1. GrangerCub Server -> FF off, Aim help, free evos/creds, unlimited stamina.
  2. GrangerUltraSuperMasterHard Server -> Normal gameplay with the same things as GrangerPub have now, but claiming is supa hard for noobs.

It could work.

I played very interesting games where teamkills are handled in very different ways, not turning off friendly fire. Be more creative with more solutions. Accidental teamkills are less often than real teamkilling, so the 1.x damage doesnt sound too crazy for me, really.

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