Discussion Regarding Server-side Demos (and it's relation to Tremulous)




tl;dr demos r pretty cool but resources r limited so release 1.3 first kthx ez pz gg no re


doesn't work for me for some reasons, I always get a "failed to download" error lol
but I don't care about my replays anyways, I'm too good so I don't need to improve XD


LoL is not FPS, and is PC&gayOS-only. WRONG.

then why did u compare Tremulous with LoL ?

it looks like u didn't quite get the message, so i will repeat it louder:

countless crappy developers.

no, the „u have volunteered” comment that i gave is a general troll comment i like to throw around every now and then.

it's not the server-side demo feature in its own right that has priority (eg. for use in fact-checking), but rather a clean underlying game architecture design that would make server-side demos almost a free consequence. the clean design is not a priority, but if an instant hack is possible, or an implementation can be ported (eg. from TremFusion), then it should be done.

in this case, those that don't create academically acclaimed clean design.
PS: eg. u. xD

yes, shrewd questioning. also, someone did X. that must make u question my intentions as an X-doer.1


both r true. however, how did u manage to deduce the latter one from the above ?

what part of

did u fail to not deliberately_ignore ?
also, what data constraints ? this 2004-era heap of junk here has 100s of GiBs of disk space.2

2 if we took the pr0n out of the calculation.


  • u're so ultra-n00b, that it would take u months to find a fucking log line ?
  • i'll be sure to drop a 90-day old report in ~90 days.
  • yes, the report system is so shit that even admins would prefer to slack off instead of building justice.


Here is something constructive for this thread:


Talking about OW. CSGO would be the biggest FPS but that is PC only. LoL is the biggest online game on PC.

Yes, because you compared it with Sc2 and said the OW comparison wasn't enough to go by. Tell me what games you think would make a fair comparison and I will look into them. Some of the games I mentioned are not in a similar situation in not only genre but their need for monitoring players. Some games have less griefing than what is possible on tremulous simply due to the gameplay and rule set. You aren't going to find the perfect game to compare it to so I am comparing it to games people actually play because we want this to be a success.

Do not understand.

Would you like to do it?

AGREED. See what happens when you clarify instead of troll?

Not from above, but all your actions I have on record.

I WAS TALKING ABOUT OW. It's a 2016 title.

Correction. Your repots are so shit that I would prefer to slack off.
Report system is also shit.


WROOOOONG !!!1! again, in order of consequence:

  1. u compare Tremulous with LoL.
  2. i compare Tremulous with StarCraft.
  3. u complain that SC/SC2 were only 2 games, and that they're RTS.
  4. i point out that LoL is only 1 game, and that it's also RTS.

i did not complain about specifically the OW comparison.

fuck off with the comparisons. with this u're only saying that „if there r so many crappy developers out there, then there's no shame in us being crappy as well”, which is a fact, but is disappointing, hence i will voice „crappy developers” upon every opportunity.

clean design encompasses careful handling of game state and input, giving rise to full determinism/reproducibility, easily permitting operations such as lossless recording, rewinding and replaying (including saving and loading) of games, and permitting accurate predictability of events across the network. another consequence of such clean design is less bugs.

additional consequences:

  • monitoring everything, deterring griefing
  • low-bandwidth streaming of gameplay, also low archiving costs
    • though viewer-side rendering
  • viewer-adjustable rendering (graphics packages) and focus on events
    • permitting in-depth analysis of gameplay
  • delayed streaming of public but competitive matches (with the above benefits at the same time)

recording functionality is not primarily for monitoring players. clean design should pay off (due to much-lowered testing and maintenance costs) in the long run, and then implementing the said state-related additional functionalities is a must (relative priorities being practically irrelevant), because they r such a short step away from the mere careful handling of state and input, and come with immense benefits by comparison.

would, but the DICKBUTT has pissed me off.

yes, exactly. now answer the question; for clarity, i will repeat and rephrase: what data constraints ? because data storage is only limited by the space available on storage media, and ppl nowadays have ~∞ space to store demos (or „plays”) on, making the „at most 3 plays per profile” a counter to a possibility of a good experience.

why ? each report clearly shows exactly the parts of the logs relevant to demonstrating the extent of the abuse.



We have the best developers don't we folks?

Sounds wonderful. Good luck easily producing that in a game that was conceived before YouTube.

Agreed, that's why I still referenced them.


If you aren't a "crappy developer" why are you so plagued by petty DICKBUTTS?

Tell me where I can get infinite or at least mass storage space for free.

Most reports were finicky and lead to nothing more than a !warn. Although I thank you for taking the time regardless.


how is YouTube relevant ? also, StarCraft was released before YouTube.

who/what ? all those games without „clean design” ? so u mean to say that their developers don't strive for the long run ?

the formal capabilities of a developer has no relation to whether he/she is plagued. unless u mean: „those who r plagued do not code, thus don't create any design, thus don't create clean design, and r thus crappy”. then let me correct the definition of „crappy developers”: those that create designs that r not academically acclaimed clean ones.

anywhere; it's cheap. answer the question !

thus, there will be less of such sporadic abuse, because subsequent violations will result in more than a !warn.

\living with the fucktarded system for reporting server abuse

Did the original starcraft have the clean controls you mention? Youtube video player is nice.


I'm sure some do. Other companies probably weigh it out based on profit.

Yes it does. Your ability to remain unphased, calm, and focused are all skills that can be used to improve your work. This also isn't exclusive to devloping.

Yes, this is what I am implying.

Better than NO designs.

My HDD is 970/1000 GB, SSD is 150/250. My storage media is limited. I am limited by my budget. Online storage has limitations and developers have budgets also. etc.

CORRECT... assuming they connect under the same username. No IP was recorded because you did not attempt to contact an in-game admin to report/investigate these issues for you.

\living with the fucktarded system for reporting server abuse

It seems that a lot of the replies in this thread have veered off topic. For now I think it is best to temporarily close this topic, since we don't have a version of server side demos implemented yet, the relevent concerns are hypothetical on something that doesn't yet exist and thus can't be verified by data at this time, we plan to implement server side demos, and we have what looks to be a relatively straightforward initial implementation (i.e. porting existing code).

This topic will be reopened after we have server side demos initially implemented on test7341 so that we can observe first hand the advantages/disadvantes, bugs, and limitations, and see where there can be improvements (or if the idea should be scrapped). Check back here S00N(TM).