Pickpocketing


#1

Some people have complained that humans are overpowered. If this is true, something should be done, but what? I propose making humans less powerful by not messing with their weaponry, but by discouraging teamwork. Make so that, if you manage to get behind a team mate, you can steal some or all of the team mate’s credits. This surely will cause quarrels among the humans and make them less likely to work together.


#2

Making a stealing system would only add a new way of trolling players which isn’t what is intended in my opinion.
I would much prefer having a nice teamwork centered game-play system where the strategies are more efficient than random uncoordinated rushes.

Both teams need new ways to achieve these strategies, whether it’s a weapon or a buildable. (In my opinion, we’d be better with both.)
Something that was already something to somewhat have a good hold on was making the server fun and enjoyable to anyone with close to no teamkills. If we do implement such feature, we would go against our own terms of preventing teamkills (intentional). Someone could just come in and say he was stolen 10 credits which would be a justification on killing his teammates.

I do think we need something new to nerf the humans as well as something new to boost those aliens.

Thanks for the suggestion, it is an actual good one, just some points that could be improved to ensure the game still keeps being a good and fun place for everyone.


#3

It’s true, Humans are indeed OP, and (for the most part) this is by design because (in the past) Aliens were always much more OP.

After refining the Humans a bit more, the Aliens can also be made more OP (then ever before)!

Some additional tools to help teammates (on either team) coordinate their movements are planned… including homing beacon on your main base, droppable waypoint markers, vsay audio commands for defensive and offensive maneuvers, and player set ‘fire team’ squads.


#4

Sorry for the late reply, this appears to be another one of those problems with balancing posts, which balancing isn’t high on the list currently.

Humans are overpowered when it comes to area denial and splash damage. While area denial is not seen much in the Swirl gamemode, it is still an issue when being an alien. Aliens rely more on enclosed areas while humans can have both enclosed and open areas. This isn’t an issue on some maps as much as others such as ATCS. ATCS is probably the most hated map by most people, but in my PoV ATCS is the most balanced map on Tremulous. ATCS offers slightly stretched hallways with enough movement room for both aliens and humans to freely flow through, and also having a wall in the middle of the hallway preventing humans from sniping aliens. The balance part here mostly depends on the map.

As for later stages of gameplay, it yet again comes down to how well the alien player is with a specific class (although I’m not saying the Grenade Launcher isn’t a pussy weapon that you spam down an area and annihilate any alien within blast radius). The biggest problem for balance in my opinion isn’t the combat, it is the bases. Humans can basically walk into a base and destroy it all due to 1 factor: splash damage. Splash damage is simply why humans > aliens. Aliens do get something related, but it is forced to take tons of damage while giving very little output damage. The advanced marauder is both the best and worst alien in Tremulous. The reason I’m saying this is because of the structure’s targeting system, and how its sight is based at the bottom middle of the structure instead of it attacking whenever any of the enemy’s hitbox is in sight (not to mention that it also looks for the bottom middle of an enemy).

If the structures were built to detect hitboxes rather than the base of an enemy, and aliens had some sort of good splash damage, this game would be balanced in my eyes (and for god sakes, please do something with the Grenade Launcher, it kills a TYRANT in 3 seconds).


#5

Confused?

Well aliens could rely on say more closed spaces, but to be fair, the dretch pounce, the goon pounce, the tyrant charge and the wall walk all help with that.

Alien zapping? Also the fact that they have more HP than humans is for tanking purposes.

Isn’t the whole purpose of getting hit by an A.I. buildibable is the fact that they aim directly at your hitbox?

I think we might be getting something like a basi bomb which might help with that.

And costs more than a Tyrant and a lot to keep using, also have a dretch or goon go first, most of the times the player will blow that up resulting in wastage or killing themselves or the base, which is a plus for aliens.

The structures targeting system? Do you mean like the zap targeting system?

Not unless its a map that is a straight box and has no walls that you can use whatsoever or isn’t something that completely makes aliens 1 foot away from humans. Aliens can always find a way to kill humans whether it’d be running straight into them with a bit of dodging or using walls.


#6

@HelpingRobot Since the stupid forum will no longer register a post that is “the same body as my previous post”, I’ll post it here:

Why would I complain about the zap targeting system when it functions the same as every other player based target in the game? I’m saying that humans have an advantage when it comes to many things because all humans (with the exception of a Pain Saw, or a Flame Thrower) have the ability to peek around corners and destroy an entire base with 0 damage, while aliens take tons of damage to kill approximately 2 turrets before having to retreat.


#7

Don’t worry, i’ll fix that. :wink:

Ah, I see, well while that is true think of the fact that aliens have a higher HP count? Which means while humans can hide and live aliens can take more damage, and possibly live.


#8

The problem is, humans take absolutely no damage whatsoever, and have the ability to destroy an entire alien base within a minute. If the structure’s hitbox is visible to the player and the player can hit it, I’m saying that the structure should also be able to hit the player. You can’t have a player’s hitbox in sight without that player in line with yours also.


#9

And no aliens are there whatsoever to stop that? The same can be said for the ADV goon on 1.3.

You mean we need buildables that can hit you around the corner?


#10

I am saying if you are going to build defenses, they should be able to hold off enemies. Player’s shouldn’t have to defend bases as much as they do now simply because the structure is unable to see the bottom middle of an enemy.

I’m not saying that at all, I’m just saying that if a human can attack a structure from an angle, the structure should also be able to attack the human.


#11

That’s there for tactical reasons? Aliens should be there to defend the base in the event of that happening, unless well a 1v1.

That’d be very OP and allow no tactical advantage to the humans team whatsoever ontop of the fact that they have mostly all ranged defense.


#12

This might be true, but consider how long it takes for a goon to destroy a turret. It takes approximately 30 seconds to destroy 1 single turret when there is like 25 more waiting there also.

Since you are complaining about me stating the fact that defense structures should actually be able to defend a base, how do you propose a good base without defense?

Again, consider the weapons. Humans can still destroy stuff easily with rapid peeking, if you don’t know what that is, its simply hitting a and d to quickly peek around a corner and return to cover repeatedly. Even if the structures hit the humans (like they should), humans still have weapons that instantly kill structures.


#13

More like 3 barbs, also consider the fact that the ADV goon is a walking tank to a human.

Complaining, where did that come from? Also structures do defend the base, I don’t think we have turrets in IRL that have bullets that turn the corners, where you place the buildable matters and any exploitation on it is how the world works.

Yes, that can be true though still, no aliens to defend?

Also don’t forget the fact that you can miss and that grenades do bounce. Also, what if an alien was waiting for you and took advantage of the fact you’re peaking, aliens will defend their base communication is the key importance at times.


#14

4 barbs


#15

dies within 2 hits


#16

From what other than a Luci and Grenade launcher that is not easy to get?


#17

I get a Luci within 3 minutes, I’d say its pretty easy to get.


#18

:thonk:?


#19

Turrets IRL are very wonky, don’t compare this to real turrets.


#20

Aliens shouldn’t have to defend something constantly that is built primarily for defense itself.