Proper Scrim Procedure & Etiquette


#103

I posted this proposal, in the private *<{ section, for determining the win condition of scrims:

  • Up to 4 matches for a single scrim.
  • Teams alternate between consecutive matches.
  • The first clan that wins two consecutive matches, wins the scrim.
  • If neither clan wins two consecutive matches by the time the 4 matches are over, or if the 3rd match is a draw, then the scrim is considered a tie.

I don't believe ties in Tremulous should be broken by any 1 vs 1. Tremulous game play is poor for 1 vs 1 matches, and to isolate a specific condition of playing for a 1 v 1 duel does not reflect the game play as a whole. The problems with this is not only in the asymmetry of the teams, but also with building being essential and the difficulties in building and fighting at the same time as the only player on your team.

The possibility of draws isn't going to (and shouldn't) be eliminated. Also it seems to me that the problem isn't so much that draws occur, but the interpretation of if a win occurred or if a tie occurred. What I proposed above should make that distinction clear, and for a clan to claim victory, they will have to win (not draw) in two consecutive matches on two different teams, so they there is the incentive to not draw as much.

As a side note, I believe that rc hopping should be permitted in trem as it is possible to build unhoppable bases, and skill in building/attacking bases/forwards should be a factor in scrims.


#104

Please no. Just let scrims end in a draw if the full 4 rounds end up as a draw.

If it's two maps, it's less likely to be a problem. Also, if clans stop thinking of scrims as something they have to win and as something they should win in order to increase their clan's score, then people would camp less because camping means not winning. The current way scrims are set up basically means that playing to not lose is better than playing to win, because at the very least you won't lose. In games like CS:GO, online leagues last months and teams play at least a dozen matches. In some leagues, each team plays each other team twice (on their own map pick and on the other team's map pick) and draws (1-1) are common. Since the points add up over a long time, there is a massive incentive for both teams to play their best and win every single map. Ignoring the fact that CS:GO doesn't have draws, if Tremulous had a page where scrims were recorded and clans would accumulate points over time, that might disincentivize camping to time limit, since an actual win would increase their ranking over other clans much more so than a draw would.

There are a couple problems with this. We would need something to give the exact time when the match ended. The timer keeps going after the game ends, so screenshots after the game ends wouldn't always be at the correct time.

Also, there's the other problem: this encourages a losing team to draw out the match, since it would make the game last much longer. It also encourages the humans to not go all-out since if the aliens base rape and win early it gives them a huge advantage.

The 1v1s in soccer feature both teams attempting to score on the goalie. A 1v1 in Tremulous would still need to have the players play on each side once to be completely fair, and would just extend the length of the scrim drastically. I really don't like this idea, and I don't think Tremulous can be compared to soccer in any way whatsoever.

lol

That's why you build a base that can't be hopped.

It's worth noting that many, MANY people complained about the Overwatch sudden death system, and the devs have said they are considering changing it for the next season.

The problem with this is if, for example, NoS wins on aliens of ATCS, then Fk wins on aliens of ATCS, then Fk wins on aliens of Niveus, NoS won't have their chance to play on aliens of Niveus and even the score at 2-2, even though Fk just played on aliens twice in a row.


A high-level decomposition of strategies for 1.1 gameplay mechanics
#105

What if a single scrim only took place on a single map? So if a scrim is won in the first two matches (or even up to the 4 matches for that matter), then the clans could always decide to start a new scrim immediately after on a new map?


#106

Why not. I mean, why every EU scrim with this rule was not good for you? -or how you'll write it in English-

Mine is just a start point. We can discuss to improve it.


#107

Most people don't really want to play 4 games straight on a single map, and it's a standard in video games to alternate maps. In competitive Smash Bros., there's actually a rule called Dave's Stupid Rule which prevents players from going back to the stage they just won on. Furthermore, winning on consecutive teams (both humans and aliens) is a lot harder than winning on aliens and drawing it out on humans. I'd even say that drawing it out on humans counteracts your plan since if a team wins on humans the other team can just camp on humans to deny the aliens any chance of winning the second round in a row (especially with no time evos).

It's not even difficult to build a base that cannot be hopped, so why make it a rule that you can't hop? If your base can die to a hop and your team is stupid enough to leave the base wide open for a long enough period of time that it CAN be hopped, that's your own fault. Fk has always built bases that cannot be hopped (unless we didn't know the map well enough) and returned to base frequently enough to ensure it is safe. I see no reason why other clans can't do the same. This isn't the stone age; clans should know how to avoid base hops.


#108

We forbidden it because we thinked the same. lol

This, in mine opinion, stop the cycle of the clan war. If humans are not imposed to check every 3 mins the base, you will see more fight during the clan wars outside the range of H base.

Aggressive play from H team give to the scrim a rhythm that right now I have never seen.

You can still destroy H base, not touching the RC. Instead of 1 goon, you need 4 goons.

Not doing the anti hop base, a builder can build from the start a base against AS3. So Humans will have their full team after 5-7 minutes.


#109

What if the requirement to win was the first team to win one match on aliens and one match on humans out of at most 4 matches. When a draw occurs, teams would not switch, and the clans would playing on the same teams until one wins a match with those teams, or until the scrim is determined a tie.

A tie in a scrim would be determined by 3 matches that are played if all 3 are draws, or if 4 matches are played if only 2 out of the first three matches were draws, and the 4th match was a draw.

One of the things that makes trem very different from many other video games is its asymmetry in teams, and I think that for a scrim to be considered a victory, proficiency needs to be demonstrated on both teams. However, in trem, you can be better on a given team for different maps. If maps could switch, and you are better on a given team on another map, you can take the strategy of forcing a draw to achieve a more likely victory on another map.

If to win you have to demonstrate proficiency on both team for the same map, then you would have better incentive to not go for a draw. Additionally, if you would like to play on more than one map, that is more of an incentive to go for an earlier scrim victory with less or no draws so that a new scrim on another map can begin sooner.


#110

@Hero and others who are interested in having a 1on1 shotty vs. goon duel, test this out and tell me if you want anything changed:

\map shotgoon

I added buttons to open the opponent's teleporter. (To ensure both players TP at the same time)
The map also has HS2 threshold set to -1 so you start with S2, and two eggs in the human spawn room so you can buy a shotgun.


#111

Let me know when you would like it added to GrangerClub.


#112

Whenever you want pretty much. Just keep in mind it might get edited s00n(TM) if they do plan to use it and want me to edit some things out.


#113

K, I'll wait for the initial round of input in case there are any changes you need to make right away.


#114

thank you fk for your poor sportsmanship today on the battlefield.


#115

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#116

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#117

we're not done with u seine

git back on ya scunbahg


#118

Face is still butthurt about FK taking over GHub and not sharing the keys to NoS.

conspiracy!!1!

#119

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#120

whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy did you restart

:'(((


#121

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#122

No such comparison was ever made.