Proper Scrim Procedure & Etiquette


#164

You answered the inverse to my question. I asked what would happen to the game play if rants were removed and chainsuits remained.

My idea is to have stage advancement based on the kills of the enemy team rather than your own team. Your team advances to the next stage when/if the enemy team gets X kills. This idea is based on how evolution and technological research occurs in real life. Things that don't do well prompts change, things that do well remain the same. This can be further enhanced by allowing the possibility of staging down, and even making the staging nonlinear but rather structured like a tree. You still get rewarded evos/credits the same way as before (essentially) so there still would be a direct reward for doing well. But again, a game play that has a feature like this, would not be considered 1.1 vanilla game play :slight_smile: .

I've seen that feature in action before, I'm not a huge fan of it. But also, how does that encourage more forwarding before sd rather than just making a stronger main bases? DevHC brought up a good point:

Gpp vanilla implemented a version of this with zoned bp based on the power ranges of repeaters, but as I've said, that implementation had many problems.

But also the actual difficulty for humans to build forwards needs to be considered. A ckit needs to be escorted by one or more combat teammates (unless the ckit gets really lucky wondering out on its own). For a fully functional basic forward the ckit needs to build a repeater, a telenode, an armory, and a medistation. each of those buildables can only be built by the ckit one at a time, each takes time to construct, and the ckit can't get a combat weapon (if you don't count the blaster) while buildables are constructing so the escorting combat teammate(s) need to remain at that location to defend at the same time (assuming the ckit isn't "speed building" and that requires a telenode and timing to make sure the ckit doesn't respawn at a different location). This is not counting any defensive buildables.

For aliens to make a forward, a granger (while not being effective in most combat situations, its mobility allows it to avoid encountering combat humans pretty well, and sneak around a map pretty quickly) just needs to build one egg, and the aliens have all they need for a fully functional basic forward, and anything else would be a bonus.


#165

No reasons to have suits if you don't have rants.


#166

Unless you're UBA LOL


#167

This is interesting. But how would it work with the factor "build a base" ?
Maybe create something like:
- 3 forwards for each team: when a team destroy every enemy forward they can rush enemy base
- 10 mins to build forwards (or maybe put it as default layout). Every forward should have:
As Alien, 1 booster, 1-2 trappers, 2-3 acids, 1 egg
As Human, 1 repeter (ofc), 2-3 turrets, 1 medi, 1 arm
So we skip the S1 stage as build.

Dev is right, but tyrants are only S3 aliens. So if you're not good enough to get S3, you won't use the "best alien".

BTW, are we talking about pubs or scrims?

P.S. @dGr8LookinSparky you can:
- remove both bs and tyrs
or one of these:
- give to tyrs only 300 hp
- give to bs 150 hp


#168

NERF PLX

QQQQ


#169

We were kinda talking about both, even though the topic is just about scrims :wink: .


#170

I can think of numerous scenarios where adv or regular goon offers more utility and killing prowess.


#171

I'm with you, but utility is different than combat.

Tell me


#172

Utility is a major asset in combat in numerous occasions. U are not playing crap of duty.

Tyrant is just a retarded braindead pollack OP as fuck class, nothing more to add.

If I can remember correctly, adv goon kills helmetted humans faster than rant... with poison (or bleed or well placed barb or pounce). O it's also the only alien class to have a real ranged attack that actually does a high amount of damage in most situations (fuck locdamage though).

After double checking, only primary attacks:

Adv goon can kill a human in 1200 msec with poison, 1800 msec without.
Rant kills a human in 1500 msec.

Worth noting that the goon's claw does 80 base damage, pounce 100, and barb (utility) 110 (again, FUCK locdamage bullshit).

HF


#173

adv goon is flying rant of scum


#175

A post was split to a new topic: Domination Modes in Tremulous


#176

automatic construction of first forward bases ? plausible.

PS: domination mode


#177

here's a better account:

an advanced dragoon can kill a light-armored, helmeted human in

  • distance time + 1200 ms without poison;1
  • distance time + [600 ms with 60% chance, otherwise 601–1000 ms uniformly] with poison, assuming no medkit involved.2

1 distance time, 1st chomp (48 damage), 600 ms delay, 2nd chomp (96 damage), 600 ms delay, 3rd chomp (kill).
2 distance time, 1st chomp (48 damage), 600 ms delay, 2nd chomp (96 damage); also poison (8 damage) at some time: if the phasing falls within the first 600 ms of at most 1000 ms, then (kill) by the time of the 2nd chomp, otherwise (kill) depending on where the phasing falls in the following 400 ms.

a tyrant can kill a light-armored, helmeted human in

  • distance time + 750 ms.3

3 distance time, 1st chomp (60 damage), 750 ms delay, 2nd chomp (kill).

similarly, an advanced dragoon can kill a battlesuited human in

  • distance time + 1800 ms without poison;
  • distance time + 1200 ms with poison, assuming no medkit involved.4

a tyrant can kill a battlesuited human in

  • distance time + 1500 ms.

4 zomg !


#178

Beside all those "math calculations", a tyrant normally can kill 3 shotguns + helms, goons and adv can't (due to the fact that if I fail a chomp probably I'll die, if I fail a maul I still have 360 hp)

Plus, normally if ppl see an adv goon they rush him with no doubts, if they see a tyr they run away (fear factor or call it how you want).


#179

Rant reach is 32 units longer than adv goon and is wider, it has 150 more hps, it has more speed when just walking, it can use primary attack while charging, it has x2 health regen aura, it has mo4r regen without the aura and it has a FAT_FUCKING_ASS that blocks humans when they try to dodge. G4Y.

U r also WRONG, the adv goon can use barbs to weaken them before engaging and still winrar.

Uhh, 3 shotguns will do an instant 168 damages to you regardless of whether you're a rant or a goon, just saying. 2 or 3 secs == dead rant, 1 or 2 secs == dead goon. BUT the rant has the N1GGER charge that'll throw people in all directions also.

Thx; AIN'T GOT TIME FOR THIS SHIT.


#180

Yes find me someone that menages to catch hummies with at least 2 barbs on 3. Plus adv goon is misundestanding: 3 barbs x 3 adv goon = RC down. But ppl want to do Trem champagne.

If they are in circle. In RLG (real life games lol), other 2 shotguns kill the first one.

Anyway you exposed with your last post that tyr is overpowered and so the best alien (aura, regen, charge, etc.).

Case closed pls


#181

Uhm pretty much anyone that plays adv goon on a regular basis, too many to make a full list. Plus only one barb (IF LOCDAMAGE ISN'T BEING G4Y - ie, barbing in a specific angle even if it's in the head will do minimal damages - but even just 4 damages will allow a 2HK or might them waste medkit) can do up to 70ish damages if not more.. Pollacks r just bad and no one is teamworking.

Really, what does it take to barb a human for sure? Camping a corner and waiting (OH, something the rantwhores know how to do great!) and timing the barb (not even accurately in packs of humans). I'm not talking about chase-barbing and stuff like that.

Adv dragoon is 10 times better at attacking bases, running (not just from fights, but around the map), and it has access to a shittrillionzillon tactics where the rant is just HURR DURR CAMP CORNER KILL BLOCK BLEED. Aside from the large HP pool/easier suit extermination (larger hit detection) a good player has literally no benefits in ranting vs an adv goon. You'd rather learn how to use the adv goon efficiently in combat because you can't devolve from tyrant.

Remember that game we had the other day with 5 adv maras? That was pretty epic and never required any ranting let alone gooning. The fun thing in that is, 85% of the games played in 1 day will have humans with such a shit level. Yet we see like 3 rantwhores in every one of them. Problem? People just pick the bigger alien because it's the more expansive one or smth instead of even giving the goon a try (and the goon is better oh yes it fucking is AND you know it. Not in raw stats (which is pretty much all a rant is), but in the mechanisms (which, in themselves, given the current playerbase can be learned and reach a decently good level in about 3 days).)

Against actual human players - not the shittards we have to fight on a regular basis - the outcome of the fight is the same! Omgbbqwtfhax.

TEAMWORK AND TACTICS NOT FUCKING WALKING RAW STATS. Otherwise yes, let's all lucisuit/chainsuit and rant like braindead fucks and be as inefficient as possible on each team.

What a fucking messy post.


#182

Btw you should make a new post about these things. This topic supposed to be about scrim. Just saying.


#183

This thread hasn't been about scrims ever since the first 10 posts. We are talking game mechanics anyway which can be in either scrims or pub games. Sameshit.

Someone has to try scrimming and disallow both suits and rants and see how it goes.


#215

Well they camp and if the rush failed you are fucked because you wont have evos :smiley: There were some examples in scrims.