[Swirl DIscussion] Should aliens be allowed to devolve in general?


#1

This also begs the question (which should be discussed before this topic):

Should aliens be allowed to devolve, at all?
Why? Why not?


[Swirl DIscussion]Should combat aliens be allowed to develove into grangers?
[Swirl DIscussion]Should combat aliens be allowed to develove into grangers?
#2

Raises the question (begging the question is a type of logical fallacy, sorry, had to correct this).

The conventional linear one directional evolving I believe has the following issues (some of which are interatled):

  • There is a conception that successive classes are generally better classes because they are next in line.

  • The progress of matches (especially in public games) predictably results in a preference towards having "more powerful" classes and sticking to them when you can, limiting potential variation in outcomes of matches.

  • If you could devolve at least among "low tier", and "mid tier" classes, you are given more versatility with those other classes, which result in more powerful classes not being needed as much.

  • When adding new alien classes, you are forced to have to fit it on that one dimensional single direction evolution line.

There are a few alternative approaches to the conventional linear one directional evolving I can think of at the moment:

  • Keep evolution linear, but allow develvoing on that line to some extent (or completely)

  • Use an evolution tree of some kind.

    • There is already support for a type of evolution tree in the CODEZ(TM) since before 1.1 was released, but conventional trem never really took advantage of it and used it in a primarily linear fashion, that is not to say that there can't be a better evolution tree system than what is implemented in the current code.

    • An evoultion tree could restrict direction so that while you could choose from multiple branches at different points on the tree, you would be committed to the branch you chose.

    • An evolution tree could allow partial or complete devolving through the branches. Over the past several weeks I have actually tried a partial allowance of devolving with the current evolution tree system in trem where you could evolve in any direction between the basic mara, the basic goon, and the spitfire. You could also evolve back and forth between the adv mara and the adv goon. This has the effect of creating groups of classes and depending on the situation, and advantage to stay in one group of "lesser powered" classes, and a disadvantage of going to the other group of "more powerful" classes.

    • The use of an evolution trees might ass needless complexity, and at the very least would require significant changes to the ui to better communicate how the evolution tree works.

  • Allow for direct evolution from any class, to any class (perhaps with the exception of not allowing or restricting devolving into a granger?).

    • This could be done in way that makes the "evolution" to any specific class cost the same "base evos" regardless of which class you are evolving from. If the adv mara had a "base cost" of 3 evos, it would cost 3 evos whether you would be evolving from a dretch, a basi, or a rant. This is actually something that I'm specifically looking into trying next on test7341.
    • This option simplifies the placement of new classes as you would only have to consider what cost a new class should have.

    • This allows for a much simpler and more natural variety and selection of available classes as the best classes (that can be afforded) would be used for the given situation and given match. Here best doesn't mean the most powerful. It is about using the right tool for the job. You don't get good results if you try assembling a personal computer using a bulldozer instead of a screw driver.


#3

A post was merged into an existing topic: [Swirl DIscussion]Should combat aliens be allowed to develove into grangers?


#4

there is no general reason why aliens shouldn't be allowed to evolve in any direction.

in the unidirectional case, being stuck with a subset of alien classes creates annoying situations for aliens in matches with very low player counts, particularly 1v1s. (however, being stuck with a construction kit for a prolonged amount of time, creates similar annoying situations for humans.) so allowing bidirectional evolution would eliminate this issue, but beware of the then-needed rebalancing changes — but not that balance isn't broken in the first place.

however, unidirectional evolution sounds more interesting, and would be more interesting, if all of the Tremulous gamelogic were unfucked.