Tremulous 4D in Virtual Reality


#1

I stumbled across this video showing some VR apps that applies 4 dimensional concepts:

So basically, not only does VR offer extra immersion into 3D environments, but it also offers the opportunity for 4D interactions (in a similar way how we can interact with the 3D Tremulous world on 2D displays).

It is plausable to introduce VR to Tremulous. We may have to slow down the game play for on “VR Servers”, so as to not induce nausea, nor risk having players break their necks when trying to bite the head of a human using a dretch from the wall.

After watching the above video, consider this question, and feel free to spam your thoughts:

Think of 4 dimensional concepts/interactions that might be awesome to experience in the Tremulous game play.


#2

Good idea, though it’d be a bit wonky.
s00n™ Tremulous 34030405304030340D VR


#3

Great idea, but I do agree a little bit with Helping.
It would definitely bring something new to the game, but could be a little bit wonky and would need some really precise and well made adjustments to the game (Visuals, Audio and Gameplay all need to be adjusted accordingly and we should make sure that if we allow non-VR players to join VR servers that they don’t have an overpowered advantage.)

Anyway, something I would definitely like VR for is that Tremulous could fall in the horror category. And personally with the introduction of VR I would really like to see the introduction of some Co-Op adventure/horror maps with story and ai.

(We could introduce such map features even without VR, but it would make VR somewhat more useful and would add a more attractive way of using VR other than looking around.)

What I mean about precise adjustments:
The head should rotate a small bit with the person’s head position/rotation. (Optional, but it would add some life and would make the game even more organic.)
The gun targeting system can’t use the camera anymore. (Since you can simply take the gun to your eye and aim down the sight and such, why not just make the bullets come right from the gun’s barrel and go forward from that point. (If it’s not already like that of course.))
The evolution visuals should be modified a small bit. (It should give a true sense of evolving to the person playing. I mean, sure it’s fine to see the camera go up and feel a lot bigger when becoming a tyrant, but what if he had a few effects giving an even better feeling?)

Anyway, all these suggestions are only suppositions. I do not own a VR device (Although I do want to end up buying my own Vive.) and most of these might even cause sickness if not well used. (That’s why I prefer saying to make precise adjustments so they don’t end up hurting the player in any way possible. (Sure the fear caused by a tyrant running after you might cause some sweating and such, but it doesn’t cause nausea :wink: ))

Also, if we’re to add VR, maybe a few tests could be nice to do once we have some prototypes. This way we can leave a notice in-game when opening that if they enable VR they are aware of what to expect.


#4

Also, imagine if small aliens could crawl onto you, and EAT YOUR FACE. While being attached to it. Seing creatures silently walking on your own skin is creepy. Also, first person painsaw, if it could be swung. :slight_smile:


#5

@avarthar & @AutumnLegends have made some very good suggestions for the VR that are mainly related to the 3d immersion aspect of the technology. But how can we use the potential of the 4d aspect in Tremulous?

The video in my original post shows two ways (perhaps not the only two ways) one can have 4d interactions with VR. The first way would involve projecting something with 4 spacial dimensions into 3 spatial dimensions. when we look at a 3d opaque object, we only see the part of its surface facing us, and that surface can be projected onto a 2d flat surface (like a 2d display), which can still provide a lot of information about the 3d aspects of the 3d object. Similarly you can observe a “surface” of a 4d object projected into 3d space (if you can see inside of its “surface”). The difference being that the surface of a 3d cube is a 2d square, while the surface of a 4d hypercube is a 3d cube.

The other approach creates a “time trail” where the time frames of a moving object are all super imposed in the same 3d frame, where in this case the 4th dimension is a time dimension (as opposed to a 4th spatial dimension). below is a screen shot of the trajectory of a “launched” chair.

@lamefun 's “Time Dretch” proposal comes to mind.

What if from the “Time Dretch’s” perspective, it sees “time trails” of other players/projectiles/etc (stretching only over a certain period of time), and could attack/interact with any of those frames?

Keyboard/mouse players should probably not be allowed to play on VR servers (maybe they could be allowed to just spectate though). Likewise, maybe if you were using VR, on keyboard/mouse servers you may only be allowed to spectate without “following” a player. Mobile devise players could maybe be ok to play on the same servers as VR players could play.

VR is becoming more developed (in terms of both hardware and software), more widespread, and more affordable. Tremulous could have a good future with VR, if implemented right.


#6

I think the problem with implementing the 4th dimension in Tremulous is that it’s really hard to invent features that would work with that. The only thing I can think up is a non-Euclidean map to crawl around. The thing is, what is the 4-th dimension? Is it a part of material universe we can see, like in the video?
The irony is, there is no image anywhere at all, we don’t see anything in this universe, we see it’s reflection. Our eyes are 2d, with basic stuff processed in our brain. Tremulous is not 3D, it doesn’t exist, as it is bunch of code and light. Wrapping ones head around the concept of hyper-reality is hard. I don’t get it to full extent. All the models we make are just that: models. We can’t comprehend non-Euclidean world as a species. As a universe, as of yet.
If we think of 4-th dimension as time, there is the same problem. Time is relative to location of the beholder and target’s speed relative to it. But of course time doesn’t exist too, not like we can prove it. A realistic interpretation of a multidimensional universe would be that of nothingness, filled with nothing we can comprehend as waves and particles age and die in a span of eternity that is one millisecond. So yeah. Kinda hard to make up something accurate about a thing we don’t know much.
Sorry for my probably poor knowledge of all that stuff, but that’s the way I think it is :slight_smile: Experimentation with time and hyperspace in Trem can do great things, like imagining what it would feel like to teleport, to move FTL, to be a part of the omnipresent hive mind. It’s endless possibilities! :slight_smile:


#7

That is philosophically debatable :wink: . It is like saying that our minds don’t really exist, as it is just a bunch of neural signals. Or that the world outside of our minds don’t really exist, as all that we know about it is through our unreliable senses, and even then the super large majority of what we think we sense is processed in our minds to fill in the gaps of the raw data.

Tremulous does have observable properties (many of which are multidimensional), and we even socially interact with supposedly other people through it, so in those respects, perhaps trem may not exist any less or more than other thing we consider a part of reality.

@Morpheus explained this concept pretty well:


#8

Well, nothing exists as we can’t prove or disprove it :slight_smile:
To get back on topic, effects of teleportation I still would consider one of the most fitting to the theme, since it can be done in different ways. Like a hyperspace that contains both the entrance and the exit, or a fold in space-time. Would be fun to see in-game :slight_smile:

But I like the theme way too much to stay off the philosophical debate of whether or not anything is real. If I am right (I might not be, I was told the therory was disproven), while we are not looking somewhere, all possibilities exist at once. And actually everything in this world goes the best way for the person in his version of the universe. Like I can shoot muself in the head, and for me it would be misfires all the time, no matter how many shots, but for you I will blow my brains out on the first try. If this could work in a game, that would be a great addition to the Time Dretch :slight_smile:


#9

yes it would be awesome


#10

The movie Next is some what based on that concept @AutumnLegends brought up. Where Nicolas Cage can experience multiple future paths ahead of time, and then choose the path with the optimal outcome.

What if there was an alien that would “bifurcate” at various movement events, that would result in the alien being located in multiple spots simultanously, but your primary view will be at the spot where you have the highest health (this can result in jumping to different spots, if your current spot no longer has the highest health). To kill the alien, the alien must be killed in all of its possible locations.


#11

Very good movie, I remember renting this one a few years ago.


#12

Yay, I get to feel like I’m actually blowing an aliens head off for once!
Ah crap, I’m too poor for a VR headset.