Why ATCS?


#1

Hi
I'm playing a little while and I have a small suggestion. To many times we play on ATCS . Can the administrator set server to avoid ATCS a little? Is there such possibility? There are many great maps. Now on grunger server are many players so this map is just to small. What do you think? Maybe we can have a day without ATCS :stuck_out_tongue: ?


#2

No you ph4got; atcs rules, is teh bes.


#3

its fun


#4

Can we have a day without shitmaps instead?

No Mission One, no Kaiji Hotel, no empty server, etc.


#5

There are awesome maps instead of ATCS , but when there is a small amount of players it should be atcs or tremor , niveus etc....Because big maps are boring when there is few players.


#6

Here is map rotation. It's only in play when small amount of players.


#7

one of my favs maps is the old UTCS if anyone else likes let me know. id love to play on that one more.


#8

Thank u for that explanation it it really nice. What would u say to add new map to that rotation?. Something like 1984 or highrise or maybe something new. I know everyone like good old maps and i like them to but sometimes i miss something new. It does not have to be big changes just a little bit to refresh game.


#9

atcs is played too often because the currentish ppl on Tremulous have no brains to learn layouts of new maps. atcs is a very shit map, but most ppl can't think in the long run, which would be: exploring a new map would take effort, but would make Tremulous-life more fun from that point on forever.

among other independent explanations.


#10

Welcome to GrangerHub's forums @Campo :smiley: ! Thank you for your feedback.

With this rotation, and the activity of the GrangerPub server, atcs is still played very often, and it still gets voting in relatively often (not as much as it used to though).

I have to admit, I do like the sound of that :slight_smile: .

That is technically possible.

The reasons I've been told that a certain percentage of the population likes to play atcs so often are as follows:

  • It is a simple map.

  • It is easy to wallwalk on most (if not all) of the map's surfaces.

  • Your pounces aren't generally interfered with by any surfaces.

  • People are familiar with the layout and many people don't like to learn new layouts.

  • the map is supposedly balanced in game play meaning that in the long run humans and aliens approach an equal number of wins.

  • the map performs relatively smoothly on old lowend machines.

Some other reasons atcs is played as often as it is on GrangerPub:

  • GrangerPub inherited the playerbase of the the old 1.1 AA server, which, believe it or not, played atcs much more often than it is played now on GrangerPub. Which means we also inherited a certain percentage of players who or even more inclined to enjoy playing atcs very frequently.

    • One of the main reasons for this was that a large percentage of the Tremulous playerbase still only used the old 1.1 vanilla stock client from Tremulous.net which could not download from web servers, and downloading pk3 files from game servers would download at rates of much smaller than even dialup, so it wasn't practical for those clients to download any pk3 files (generally speaking), and only the default maps were played.

    • The GrangerPub server (as well as GrangerClub & test7341) provides a much much more reasonable game server download rate, which makes it practical to host non-default maps.

  • since there is a significant highly vocal minority of players who want to play atcs very frequently, there is a lot of pressure to have the rotation setup to play atcs more often.

  • GrangerPub at the moment has a very old and crappy map selection system which includes a very old and crappy voting system that can be easily abused by persistent vocal minorities. The map selection systems being developed on the test7341 server are way way way better.

  • 1.1 vanilla game play doesn't play well on many maps.

  • There aren't many high quality smallish Tremulous maps to choose from. Although there have been some rumors of new high quality smallish arena type maps in the works ( ask @MaeJong about such rumors :wink: ) .

  • For about a third of the average day, the number of players on the server is less than the threashold for exiting out of rotation 1 which only has atcs (and I'm told that atcs has the tendency to attract players to stick around, but I have seen this with other maps as well).

  • Playing an unfamiliar map for the first few times, oftent results matches ended relatively quickly, with little time to get familiar enough with such maps. (a warmup period to try out a map before the match begins can be helpful on this point, and we have an experimental warmup mode being developed on the test7341 server).

Reasons I don't like atcs:

  • the map is played way too often, and I would get bored of playing any map being played anywhere close to this frequency.

  • the map isn't very stratigically challenging, and the big picture strategies are very predictable. There isn't much room for trying new things.

  • the map gets extremely campy past a certain number of players.

  • the map is very ugly, and I don't want to play with the cheat that only shows the lightmap, as it makes me feel like I'm playing in an art museum with no art.


#11

don't just sit there, DO SOMETHING !!!1!

how is that a reason ?

this is true for many maps, eg. Niveus.

WRONG. pouncing is interfered by ramps when going upwards.

this is true for almost all maps.

the extent of this is very specific for the current population. for example, this was much less significant on servers like AU.

WRONG. aliens always had a statistically supported greater chance to win.

this is true for a lot of maps.

as if GPP or Swirl played any better...

WRONG, and: as if atcs were a high-quality map...


#12

Swirl isn't done yet, but still in my opnionthe, both the current work in progress version of swirl and even vanilla gpp plays better on a broader range of maps than 1.1 vanilla.

Link to the stats please (for 1.1 vanilla on atcs).

As a side note, the bullet list directly under:

do not represent my views, those are just the reasons I've been told.


#13

just get rid of fucking fortification already, every time the map auto changed to fortification the fucking server DIES


#14

ATCS is good enough we don't need other shitty map.
Karith is not bad, to MD-jetcamp the vent.


#15

If anyone 100% didn't like new maps. Fine. :wink:


#16


#17

atcs is popular because its a no bullshit map: every class is (sort of) viable, there are no spots you can't reach as alien or human. what i mean by this is that you might sometimes have trouble clearing certain spots out. for instance jetcampers when you're a rant. but compare this to karith's ele room where tyrants are essentially worthless if humans build there. Regardless of whether this is balanced, it's lame. Atcs doesn't have vents where aliens have to go out of their way to kill humans, not being able to use dragoons etc.
And atcs is superior to others maps because whoever made it didn't suffer from needlessly having to complicate map design. Too many times good maps are ruined by random pipes across the ceiling, weird corner clipping, all kinds of nonsense that just ruins gameplay. The area outside of ele room on karith is this weirdly shaped hallway that is the biggest fuck you to anyone who wants to play dretch or basi.


#18

indeed.
btw, fu rant camper.


#19

u have a crappy definition of „bullshit”.

this is true for almost all maps.

such as humans on the reactor in a corner, covered by 6 turrets ?

sux that u can't rant-whore against everything ?

and in case u didn't know, there is a map, called atcs, that has a large courtyard for jetcampers.

WRONG. u suck. tyrants r still very useful, at least for defence. but in practice, tyrants r also useful in killwhoring around the elevator room, because humans don't always turtle on the top level, but go down (which is even a requirement to chase low-health aliens), and even try to move out every now and then. if humans did turtle on the higher level — or in any cornered base on any map for that matter —, then any alien class would have „trouble clearing out that spot” — this is generally not map- or class-specific.

no, what's lame is when the tyrant is whore-capable against everything, permitting brainless whores to dominate without thinking.

sentence doesn't make sense.

boring !

don't judge a map by who made it.

also, a plain 1000x1000x200 box map is more superior, because it is minimally complicated.

i'm getting the hang of how u define a good map: Karith Station 2 would be good map if there were no wallclimbing-obstacles. by this, Niveus is a good map, period. similarly atcs isn't a good map, fortunately it's not made ultra fucking bad by any wallclimbing obstacles. most ppl have different aesthetic requirements.


#20

how to take everything someone says out of context and attack strawmans, presented to you by devhc the one and only. You're right about one thing though:

But

Aesthetics and tremulous, that's a new one.

Fucking read you clown this is exactly what im saying, i like rants not being viable on certain spots, not them being fucking useless.

who can be pounced down and poisoned, can you do that on karith, you know? the one with the insane outside area where any competent human is immortal until rc goes down elsewhere?

absolutely agree, that's not what im advocating (again)

dumbass argument and you know it