[WIP]We need a Kamikaze alien for 1.3


#1

Exactly what the title says. Why, you ask? Well it would be nice to actually be able to do something late-game as alien with <3 evos. (Unlike dretches, rifles aren't completely useless and can still help with the situation.) The class should probably unlock at as2 or as3.

EDIT: Poll time! Which alien seems like a better idea?

  • The original Kamikaze idea
  • The healer-support proposal
  • Trem needs no changes
  • Basibomb

0voters


About the alien kamikaze
[]Kamikase alien for trem 1.3[]
#2

Just no
I don't want Tremulous to become a kamikaze spamer game.


#3

On Edge based mods (actually I think it started with rcz unlimited) basilisks had bombs (one bomb at a time that would take a minute to respawn), but usually they were used to suicide bomb the human base. I've seen another mod give rants a bomb instead.


#4

Low skill required


#5

Not necessarily. it depends on the situation


#6

Hiding around a corner and exploding instantly provides little counter play.

It would encourage endless feeding beyond dretchs.

Kamikaze attacks were employed by the Japanese to destroy ships more efficiently than conventionally possible. In tremulous case, destroy humans more efficiently with as little as skill as possible. Compare the skill of the pilot required to proceed with a kamikaze attack to that of a dog fight. (It's almost possible to assume some of those Kamikaze flyers weren't even fully licensed pilots that just barely knew how to take off and fly straight). Suicide bombing is currently heavily employed in modern days by nations that are severely outclassed in skill and tech.

Finally, most game mechanics that provide perks for dying are often frowned upon. (martydom from cod4 comes to mind).


#7

Moved to the 'Evil Genius Think Tank' category for relevancy.

Chainsuits rushing to OM dropping grenades?

Suicide tyrants?

I'm sorry Obani, but you've been playing it.


#8

:frowning: that's true. But kamikaze is a way to play, not a class imo.
If you propose a detailed new class description, I could agree.


#9

This would be a good candidate to enable using playmap flags on specific games.


#10

You could make it so that they had 1 hp. If they died, they would just simply "die" without exploding. Therefore you have to actually ambush your enemy to be effective

Also, read my second kamikaze proposal


#11

Isn't that basically saw-rush? Flamer? @Hendrich mentioned your suicide-rant See? It already exists in trem!

Alright - My first proposal:

It's either a s2/s3 alien that costs 1-2 evos. It has 1 health, which means that any attack instantly kills it. When the player controlling it attacks, it explodes doing a mediocre amount of splash damage that ALSO HARMS FRIENDLY ALIENS (so be careful!) Its main purpose is not to kill, but to instead weaken a specific area for the goon/rant bruisers to break in and cause chaos

My second Proposal:

It's a s2/s3 alien that should cost 1-2 evos. It has a bit more health than my first proposal. When it "explodes," it deals 0 damage but marks ALL targets within a certain range. "Marked" targets take more damage.

My third proposal:

Ditches the kamikaze, but a long ranged sniper-alien (no, not the adv goon.) It's going to be s3 and cost 2-4 evos. It does no damage with its attacks, but its victims become "marked for death." Marked players take could perhaps take %125-%150 of normal damage. (If that seems like too much, feel free to propose something)


#12

First proposition : I can barely walk in front of a simple rifle as a basilik. How would a 1hp alien have any chance to reach a target as you loose hp ALL THE TIME in Tremulous ?

Second and Third propositions : An evolution has to be independant and to be abled to do their own kills. Even granger can now. It would not be imo a bad idea that it boosts alien damages, but would be more like a second attack (for "advanced new alien").


#13

Then maybe let them do a little damage? Or an alt-attack like you said.


#14

I won't answer more. Everything can be a good idea as long as it is well done. If you really want a new alien, I'll wait for mock ups, clear descriptions, values and drawings


#15

^ This came to mind when I thought of suicide units doing too much damage. Be sure to check the "Heart of the Swarm" tab and read the ability "Corruption"

In that game, it wasn't overpowered because its attack targets were limited to "aerial units." Essentially, limiting potential targets of their main attack reduces their potential by a lot. So my idea is to ditch the kamikaze role, but instead think up a ranged support unit:

[Placeholder Name]

Stage: 3

Cost: 4 evos

Unit Role: Ranged support/Healer

HP: lowish-medium (100)

Movement speed: medium-slow (around the same as a walking goon)

Passive ability: A medical symbol (A red plus sign) is shown on top of your allies when they are at less than %30 of their maximum health.

Primary attack: A feeble and pathetic projectile attack. Huge increase in damage dealt VS structures.

Secondary attack: A projectile attack with 0 damage, but marks humans so they receive %120 of normal damage. If it hits a friendly alien, perhaps heals them for 25-50hp ? Should have a cooldown timer around the same length as a dragoon spine, perhaps longer.

Strategy:
This unit's primary projectile is excellent for dealing with a fortified human base: Just simply snipe their structures. This discourages camping, as opposing structures can all eventually be picked off, given enough time.

Use the secondary attack in order to help out during a fight by marking important targets, so the rest of your team can pick them off. In addition, use your projectile to heal wounded aliens

Pros/Cons:
+Can easily destroy an undefended base, given enough time
+Can easily prevent the death of one or more allies
+Marking enemies can turn the tide of a battle if used correctly
-Can easily be mass-driven in 1-2 hits, as it is rather frail.
-Is essentially useless without an adequate force of goons/rants
-Is rather slow and also it has no "getaway" ability (ex. Rant charge, goon pounce)
-Is rather expensive
-High difficulty level required

Recap: Overall, not recommended for new players as it is both expensive and difficult to play well, as well as being situational. However, if it's used correctly, it can easily turn the game in favour of the aliens. If this were to be added, I recommend rebalancing the lgun and the flamer to make them actually usable.

Unit Stats Summary:

HP: 100
Movement Speed: Medium-Slow (Like a walking goon)
Primary attack damage: VS Players-

(To be announced later)


#16

learn to play and stay sneeky. aka hide.


#18

unless they get helm, then being sneaky gets harder


#19

so don't show this alien in helmet radar when OM is up., at the end of the game, OM is down so it's possible to chase this alien.


#20

(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged)


#21

Seems like some people actually think this "kamikaze alien" may be viable. So I'm creating a spreadsheet for it :grinning:

Kamikaze Alien Unit Spreadsheet

[Placeholder Name]

Stage: 3, or maybe even 4(Not sure, since both seem like viable stages. To the community: please share your opinion)

Cost: 1 evo

Unit Role: Cannon Fodder/Suicide Unit

What it looks like: I imagined something that looks like a spider. It has a bulbous abdomen, like this picture from a Zelda game I know
Of course, it won't have an eyeball as its abdomen. I'm imagining the abdomen would be acid-green, like banelings from starcraft. That's about all there is to it.

HP: Extremely Low (30-40)

Movement speed: fast (slower than a dretch, and slightly larger than it too)

Abilities: Stealth: Undetected by human radar while the OM is active or while it is at full health. (Thanks, @Bluefire !)
Wallwalk: self explanatory (this is still an issue of debate whether it should have wallwalk, but I'm thinking it should otherwise it becomes nigh impossible to ambush the humans even if you have stealth, let alone arrive at the battlefield without getting shot.)

Silent footsteps?

Attacks:

Primary attack: Pathetic slash (20 damage.) Activated by M1

Secondary attack: Burst. The unit self kills and does something to the units around it in a short range (around a bit larger than the size of a tyrant.) Activated using M2.

Notes: (Damage of burst undecided as of now. My ideas are: 1. Heavy damage to buildings, mediocre damage to humans. 2. Heavy splash damage to ALL targets, buildings unaffected. 3. Mediocre damage, lowers the defense value of humans [ie. they take a set percentage more damage])

IMPORTANT: If you are killed prematurely, you will die without detonating. Therefore, you must Ambush your targets to be successful.

Strategy: Ambush is the key word here. Play like dretch. Ambush your enemies. Moving randomly is even more important because: even though you have more health than the dretch, you are slower than it and therefore easier to be hit and taken out. Careful though! If you do mess up even the tiniest bit, it will decrease your survivability and possibly harm your own team.

Pros/Cons:
+Cheap yet effective
+Powerful
-Difficult to play well
-Frail